Model simulation results, part 1

At the request of many families, here are some results. ;)

The following results where compiled like this:

  1. The FEMM scripts simulated the “Halbach Rotor” (HR) and the “Sparse Rotor” (SR) motor models while exploring several variable variations (like I explained before), dumping the results to file; Used constants where 50 turns per stator tooth and 100 Amps per phase.
  2. The results were parsed into a spreadsheet table (you can download it here in ODS format – change the extension to “.ods” before opening);
  3. Then I filtered out the candidates that generated less than 500Nm torque;
  4. Then I applied a “score” to each candidate according to my personal criteria: Score = 3 * (Nm/Euro) + 2 * (Nm/kW) + 1 * (Nm/kg). The ratios are weighed by their average before used. This means that, for me, a design’s cost-effectiveness is 3 times more important than it’s magnet weight, and the energy efficiency is 2 times more important than it’s magnet weight. If I were rich, this would be different. :) If you have alternative criteria to propose, I’d like to hear it.
  5. Then I sorted the survivors by their score, and put them on the graph below. They are sorted decreasingly left-to-right according to their score (which does not show in the graph). The graph presents the most interesting data: variant name, max torque, Nm/Euro, Nm/kW, Nm/kg.

I reduced the size of the graph here to a thumbnail because it is huge. Click on it to get to the full-size thing (3686*1145 px).

Here are the Top15 candidates descending by order of their score.

Model Magnet Poles Occ Mags Kg Nm Nm/Kg Nm/kW Nm/€
SR 11(20*10*5) 60 85% 560 4,2 1650,04 392,87 93,97 5,89 280
SR 7(15*15*3) 36 85% 420 2,14 843,81 393,94 85,41 4,1 205,8
SR 11(20*10*5) 36 85% 336 2,52 706,17 280,23 67 4,2 168
SR 2(7*7*7) 60 85% 1540 4 1244,63 310,85 73,65 3,37 369,6
SR 10(20*4*2) 60 85% 1120 1,34 1207,74 898,62 68,78 2,4 504
SR 9(19.1*12.7*6.4) 48 85% 448 5,38 1343,48 249,9 100,11 2,88 465,92
SR 6(15*4*4) 60 85% 1400 2,52 1352,62 536,75 82,18 2,42 560
SR 3(10*10*5) 60 85% 1120 4,2 1650,04 392,87 93,97 2,42 683,2
SR 10(20*4*2) 48 77% 896 1,08 828,12 770,2 58,94 2,05 403,2
SR 10(20*4*2) 48 85% 1344 1,61 1147,53 711,51 81,67 1,9 604,8
SR 2(7*7*7) 48 85% 1232 3,2 813,07 253,83 60,14 2,75 295,68
SR 10(20*4*2) 60 64% 560 0,67 514,35 765,4 29,29 2,04 252
SR 6(15*4*4) 48 85% 1680 3,02 1280,88 423,57 97,26 1,91 672
SR 6(15*4*4) 48 77% 1120 2,02 935,03 463,8 71 2,09 448
SR 3(10*10*5) 48 85% 896 3,36 1170,99 348,51 83,34 2,14 546,56

The first column includes the input variables of the simulation: model, dimensions of the magnet, number of magnetic poles, and the percentage of stator occupied by the stator teeth. The remaining columns are all calculated outputs.

The “Mags” column holds the number of magnets used; the “Kg” column holds the total weight of magnets; the “Nm” holds the maximum stall torque of the motor; the next 3 you already know; and the “€” column holds the total price of the magnets in Euro.

Important note: the electric power (kW) was calculated in pure DC; this is a very basic approximation of the real motor power, since it does not take into account the losses or the back-EMF that occur during rotation. That is something that won’t be easy to do with FEMM… but anyway, its still valid for stall (zero speed).

Various things are evident here (and after you examine the full data set):

  1. The higher the number of magnetic poles, the higher the torque.
  2. The closer the stator teeth are to each other, the higher the torque.
  3. The magnet dimensions are not directly responsible for torque, we must take into account the strength (grade) of the magnet type as well (which is not shown here); And even then, there is an interplay between the effective “curveness” of the magnetic pole (as achieved by joining several flat magnets together in a round configuration) and the stator tooth.
  4. I’m glad I set up this automated system, otherwise I would never be able to pick a good combination of magnets and geometry by manual trial-and-error. :)

So, judging from these results, the best candidate would be “SR 11(20*10*5) 60 85%” (Sparse Rotor, magnet = 20mm*10mm*5mm, 60 poles, 85% stator occupation), capable of 1650 Nm, for a modest price of 280 Euros in 4,2 kg of magnets.

However, there are still 2 problems:

  1. I haven’t explored all magnet options, because of a nasty script bug that causes error accumulation and geometric failure of the simulation models in FEMM, when larger magnets are used in the “Sparse Rotor” model;
  2. The comparison between the Sparse and Halbach models is not fair, because of the thickness of flux-carrying iron core in the rotors. The Sparse Rotor is much easier to place right in the middle of the available space, no matter which magnets are used. The Halbach Rotor, however, can only be placed at certain specific radii because the magnets have to sit side-by-side all around the rotors. So, depending on the number and size of magnets used, the Halbach Rotor will have a different radius, whereas the Sparse Rotor always has the same radius. This difference has an important consequence not only in the torque’s “arm” length, but also in the space available for the rotor iron core that sits outside the magnets. The Halbach variants often have less iron to carry the flux than their Sparse counterparts.

These two problems have to be solved before a total candidate list is produced. I intend to tweak the Halbach model in order to give it enough iron thickness to compete with the Sparse model. As to the bug… oh well, I’ll get it some day. :)

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18 Comments on “Model simulation results, part 1”

  1. Vasco Névoa Says:

    I’ll turn the model names in the table into image file links, so you can get a close view of each model’s geometry and flux… but not tonight; its late, and uploading 15 images to wordpress is not something I can do in 10 minutes. :)
    Good night, all!

  2. Njay Says:

    500€? Too high. That would be x2.
    You only picked the very best, but, as you showed us here (http://myownhybrid.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/motor-requirements/), our cars don’t need that very best.
    What results do you have for around 860Nm (your car)? And for about 650 Nm (my ford fiesta 1.25)?

  3. Vasco Névoa Says:

    500€ is too high, huh?… well, you can always go buy a pair of motors from PML Flightlink at 13300€ a piece…. :) Ok, so that’s just the price of the magnets, we’re still missing the price of the iron, steel, copper, and machine work. All together, I expect the price will about double that (1000€ per motor).

    But these designs are VERY powerful motors indeed. That’s why I need to do some extra electromagnetic validations; I expect to bring the cost down to (even) more affordable levels by making more realistic designs. The present simulations only give me stall torque, and I still need to know the effective power and torque along the whole range of speeds.

    As to specific cases, you should dig into the spreadsheet file, everything is in there (cost as well). But since I’m such a nice guy, I’ll give you the answers… ;)
    With torque between 800 and 900 Nm, we have the following prices:
    803,82Nm = 504€;
    813,07Nm = 295,68€;
    828,12Nm = 403,2€;
    843,81Nm = 205,8€; <- good enough for you? :)
    852,18Nm = 1419,6€;
    874,26Nm = 896€
    With torque between 600 and 700 Nm, we have the following prices:
    611,02Nm = 280€; <- here’s your puppy. hmm… mine’s cheaper!! :)
    619,81Nm = 840€;
    629,08Nm = 1971,2€;
    631,42Nm = 1456€;
    650,5Nm = 840€;
    653,61Nm = 1433,6€;
    660,12Nm = 840€;
    683,03Nm = 1971,2€;
    691,72Nm = 1971,2€;
    Obviously, these values aren’t much help on their own… as I said, further analysis should be conducted. That’s why I called them “candidates”.

  4. Njay Says:

    Yes, 500 € is too high :) ; especially for power that we won’t be using. It is important of course to have designs for higher power, but not now, especially when the lower power will already be more power than the current CI engine has (I’m talking about our mid-sized cars, of course). Also, you have never built one before so, it’s better not to spend all your money on the 1st prototype, ’cause you’ll sure do others.

    205 € for a 800 Nm version is much nicer, see :) ? And no, your version isn’t cheaper, your version is the same price as mine ;) .

    Thanks for the answers :)

  5. Njay Says:

    There’s an even cheaper version with a good torque for my car:

    SR 11(20*10*5) 36 85%, 706.17Nm, 2.52Kg, 336 Mags, 168€

    Now mine is cheaper than your’s :)

  6. Njay Says:

    By the way, I didn’t have to change the spreadsheet’s extension to .ODS, my OpenOffice 2.3 opened it right away.

  7. h0tr0d Says:

    SR 11(20*10*5) 60 85% 1650,04Nm 280€

    is this correct?

  8. Vasco Névoa Says:

    Yep, it is.
    If you find the torque/price ratio too high, I explain: it uses cheaper magnets (with less “force” ) but has 60 magnetic poles that compensate the lack of strength of the magnets.

  9. h0tr0d Says:

    ok.

    So why do you think that the SR10 is the best? Small weight advantage (big in percentage, I know…)?

    The SR11 is one of the strongest (Nm), best (by far) Nm/€ and one of easiest to assembly (“only” 560 mags.)

  10. Vasco Névoa Says:

    h0tr0d, you’re quite right! :)
    Thanks for the heads-up, I hadn’t really had the time to look at the results with as much attention as I should have!! (shame on me)

    What goes on is that my criteria formula is not good enough to process the data.
    The Nm/Kg column usually has values with 3 digits, the Nm/kW has 2 digits, and the Nm/€ has only 1 digit. I didn’t notice this while I was thinking about the criteria, and so the Nm/€* 50 + Nm/kW * 10 + Nm/kg is not a useful formula. At the very least, for a minimally fair comparison (if I valued all criteria about the same) it would have to be in the same order of magnitude: Nm/€* 100 + Nm/kW * 10 + 1 * Nm/kg.

    I’ll rework the spreadsheet and graph accordingly. Thanks!!! :D

  11. Vasco Névoa Says:

    Ok, its updated! The post text, the graph picture, and the spreadsheet.
    And now everything “looks” and “feels” much better! :)
    Thanks again, h0tr0d!
    (This is probably the best advantage of a project blog: watchdogs!!)

    Oh, Njay, at 280€ a piece, I think nobody would mind using the top candidate, right? :)

  12. Njay Says:

    Well, I’m happy with “SR 11(20*10*5) 36 85%”’s 700Nm and 168€. Don’t forget that the workmanship on the motors will be very expensive… unless you have lathe and know how to work with it :) .

  13. Vasco Névoa Says:

    “unless you have lathe and know how to work with it” – I’m working on that too… ;)

  14. Vasco Névoa Says:

    Finally uploaded the images. Click on each model name to get the FEMM flux picture.

  15. Njay Says:

    Good work :) !

    Actually, from the top 3, SR7 looks like a good candidate: nice torque (don’t forget it’s available from rotation zero, unlike IC engines), mid weight (half the weight of # 1, a bit lighter than# 3) and just a bit more expensive than # 3.

  16. h0tr0d Says:

    With “only” 50 turns per stator tooth I intend to reel the motor myself, so I can save money for my SR11 60! :D

    And by the way things are going I’ll be the first to put the motors in my car with only an ON/OFF switch (nitrous oxide style!!!)

  17. Vasco Névoa Says:

    Okay, people, time for some reality checks.
    My motor designs are far from practical level yet.
    They are as basic as they come, and that means they promise way more than they can deliver.
    These are the things I have *not* taken into account in my designs and simulations, or that have been extremely oversimplified:
    - thermal losses caused by coil current (extremely important, it is the main cause for low efficiency and thermal destruction of insulation and magnets);
    - thermal losses caused by high frequency harmonics in the iron cores (also very important in thermal balance and efficiency);
    - self-induced voltage in the stator (it is important in the analysis of the top speed limit and also the torque curve in order to speed).
    These are the 3 most important things I can remember that are not included in my studies.
    So, when I say that design “XYZ123″ is “capable” of XXX Nm with a current of YYY Amps, that is completely theoretical.
    Just think about this: I’ve always settled for stator wiring with 1 square millimeter section; do you think that’s really going to hold a current of 100A for long?? And even if it could, the enormous amount of heat produced by the coils would then rapidly “cook” the magnets past their Curie point, effectively melting away the investment made.
    This is the reason I’ve been calling my designs “candidates”… they still need a lot of work to become anything realistic.
    I set a 100A current for all designs so that I have a nice round comparison level that makes the differences very visible. But I don’t intend to operate my motors at 100A per phase unless I really have to. It’s just a simulation point.

    Anyway, the next steps are to get some more theoretical calculations into the modeling, in order to approach it to reality as far as possible.

  18. Vasco Névoa Says:

    The whole intention of these simulations is to find out the best directions to invest in terms of design. They are meant to show me the merit of this or that specific technique. There is still a long road to cover until I can get to the point of actually building something real.
    The rules I’ve gathered so far from my simulations are:
    - the more magnetic poles, the higher the efficiency and torque;
    - the wider the magnetic poles, the higher the torque.
    It’s a good start.


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